For other parts of the series:
Beginner’s Guide to Content in 2021
Beginner’s Guide to On-Site Optimization in 2021
Transcription from Rev.com – please excuse any grammatical, syntax, and spelling errors.
Paul Warren:
Hi, I’m Paul Warren.
Ryan Klein:
And I’m Ryan Klein.
Paul Warren:
And this is another episode of ‘SEO is Dead and Other Lies’. Man, do we have an awesome episode today.
Ryan Klein:
Paul, you didn’t even ask how I was doing.
Paul Warren:
I thought about asking you and I realized I asked you every episode, so I thought I’d mix it up a little.
Ryan Klein:
I’m going to see Tim and Eric tonight.
Paul Warren:
Oh, I didn’t ask.
Ryan Klein:
Yeah, but that’s so cool. I love these guys. They’re hilarious.
Paul Warren:
That’s funny.
Ryan Klein:
Absurdist comedy. It’s going to be a great time. I’m psyched and that’s why I’m going to be all over this podcast. We’re going to just do a great job and wrap this up in 30 minutes, right?
Paul Warren:
I actually had a fraternity brother that I didn’t know very well, he was a little bit older than me, but he went and wrote for them in LA. So he’s one of the writers.
Ryan Klein:
Good for him. He must be a weird dude.
Paul Warren:
He’s a very interesting guy, actually. His name is Carl Filer, and he used to work at the Wendy’s on campus at UCF and we would go up there and we’d order something and then he’d be like, “oh, excuse me. You forgot your small frosty, sir.” And then he’d push over like a bag full of hamburgers.
Ryan Klein:
Wow, he’s going to get in trouble.
Paul Warren:
And it was called the Carl Filer special. And he would just give you like as many hamburgers as he could fit in the bag.
Ryan Klein:
I love that. Shout out to Carl, actually shout out to all Carls while we’re at it. Carl.
Paul Warren:
Yeah. Anyway, so let’s cut this out later on and get back to the good part. And that’s the amazing and exciting episode that we have tonight, link building, because we’re continuing our series of SEO 101 in 2020. So if you’re new to SEO, you’ve been listening to our series so far, hopefully you’ve got some good stuff out of it, but now we’re getting to a little more interesting area. One of the areas that can make a pretty quick and sizable impact to your rankings and that’s link building.
Ryan Klein:
So maybe what we’ve worked at the most, have been more persistent, the most challenged, the most innovative with, is link building, because the vast majority of SEOs out there that claim to be SEOs, most of them don’t know how to do link building. And so that’s why it’s good to have a great foundation, a great idea of how it works, and we’re excited to present it to you. So as you know, this is a part of the SEO 101 series. We started with an overview. The last podcast we did was on content. We’re doing link building. And the last one will be on-site optimization later on. So link building, Paul, where do you want to start?
Paul Warren:
Well, let’s just start at the most entry level where you’re trying to earn links, right? So let’s say you’re doing this on your own and you don’t have a budget, so where do you start?
So depending on the type of business you are, if you’re a local business you’re starting with citations, which are things that you can create yourself. And so a citation is just like a directory, it’s like how the yellow pages used to exist, like a phone book, but now they all are online. And so it’s like a website that you can look up other businesses and an area under the type of business that they are, and you can get links that way. So those are quick, easy, painless. There’s software you can use to do it. You can build a bunch of them at one time.
It’s also important to the local algorithm, but it’s also building links to the page that is going to you. A lot of times it’ll be your own homepage, if you have just one location or something for business. So that’s like the bare bones of things, how you get business related links, things like that, that are free.
Ryan Klein:
Sure. I think there’s plenty of citation services out there. So a very popular one out there is Yext. We don’t typically recommend it because you pay a pretty hefty sum to have citations built annually, but if you don’t upkeep that fee they’re going to remove them. Also Whitespark is another one. Moz Local does it.
Paul Warren:
BrightLocal, correct.
Ryan Klein:
That’s another one.
Paul Warren:
BrightLocal and Whitespark are two pretty popular ones. SEMrush has a component of it. Or you can go on something like Fiverr or Konker, with a K, or Legiit with two I’s, I think. Legiit.com.
Ryan Klein:
I think it’s two G’s and two L’s.
Paul Warren:
Two G’s? You know, Legiit SEO services. You can just Google it. You’ll find it. And you can outsource that for pretty cheap, people will do it for you. It’s not a ton of money. I mean, you’re talking like maybe $50 for one location or something like that.
Ryan Klein:
Yext will list out the places that they’re going to put you on. You can just use that list if you want to do it yourself. A lot of these spaces that say they’re building citations, they’ll list out the places where they’re going to build it for you, if you want to just-
Paul Warren:
Yeah [crosstalk 00:04:56].
Ryan Klein:
Not spend money, you can just do it yourself.
Paul Warren:
Do it on your own. But they’re telling you, which is great. You can do that on your own, manually. I wouldn’t even suggest it because it’s so cheap to pay someone to do it. It’s not worth it.
Ryan Klein:
Right.
Paul Warren:
It’s worth the $50 or whatever to do a onetime push out to a bunch of locations like that. At least, it’s worth my time doing it like that. So there are ways if you’re completely broke to do it on your own. But that’s just like really low hanging fruit. You could do it all yourself if you wanted to. Actually some of them, I don’t think you could do because you have to add them through Yext, actually, at this point.
Ryan Klein:
Right. Yeah, that’s like Yext has a kind of a proprietary handle on Yahoo or something.
Paul Warren:
Yeah. But there’s still a bunch of them out there that you can do, right?
Ryan Klein:
Sure.
Paul Warren:
There’s a million local websites that are sort of related to you. Maybe it’s like a blog that talks about whatever your website’s about or your business is about, it’s like a local type thing where you can reach out and contact the site administrator or the person who writes for the owner and see if maybe you can write some content for them or maybe it’ll just link to you or anything like that. So it’s just like real low level manual stuff that you’re not paying any money. You’re going up there on your own and doing that.
Ryan Klein:
Yeah. But let’s be real, an individual is going to have a hard time making anything kind of work in that way. That’s typically something that people work on it for years to formulate the right emails and the followups and vetting the websites. And then sometimes, well actually a lot of times, people employ teams. So that’s a tough one.
Paul Warren:
Teams? Yeah. Well, I mean, there’s a lot of ways to leverage it.
So let’s talk a little bit about why you do link building and what makes a good link, before we dive into how to find some links. Ryan, what makes a good link to you?
Ryan Klein:
For me, and this is partially subjective, but I think technically it’s fairly objective, it’s [inaudible 00:06:51] my opinion, it’s still objective in my opinion. But anyway, what makes a great link is… The whole purpose of doing link building is because it’s pretty much Google and other search engines’ number one signal for authority of a website, and in turn, it’s one of the biggest contributions to websites ranking over other websites. So that being said, Google and other places kind of have their own algorithm for what makes a good link, but fortunately there are great tools out there that are able to create kind of relative metrics for identifying what website can provide a good link. And so the most popular ones are, I believe, Moz’s DA and PA, domain authority, and page authority. And then Majestic’s CF and TF. TF is trust flow, and then CF is citation flow.
Paul Warren:
So let’s talk about what kind of the primary one that you’re going to see. So if you ever go out and buy links, use a service, whatever, a service that earns them, however you’re getting them, they’re almost always going to go off DA, which is domain authority. And what domain authority is, it’s something I believe Moz created DA, right, Ryan? I don’t think it was actually like a Google thing, even though it’s a useful thing.
Ryan Klein:
Yeah. Because we were talking about page rank not that long ago and that was Google’s thing, but then other companies used a lot of data and they used data scientists and analytics to kind of come up with their own reliable metrics.
Paul Warren:
So domain authority is a function of the other links that are pointing to a site, so the authority of those websites and the links going to them, and then the age of the domain. So it’s taking all those things into account. So it’s one of those things where it’s really easy to go from a domain authority of one to a domain authority of 15. It’s easy to go to domain authority of 20. But as you go up the scale from one to a hundred, it becomes increasingly more and more difficult to jump up. So if you’re a DA of 50, you’re a pretty authoritative website. If you’re anything above that, you’re very, very authoritative. So there’s not a lot of DA nineties or eighties. So if you find yourself in that area, you’re in rare company, for the most part. So you’ve done a really good job. It means you’re either a really old and trusted business and you’ve probably got a bunch of links coming to you.
Ryan Klein:
I think our listeners, they should just go out, just run the tool right now, see where you’re at.
Paul Warren:
Yeah. And you can check a DA for free with Moz’s Chrome extension that you can upload. I think you have to log into it, but you can have a free account with Moz, and you can see what your DA is. And it’s a cool little extension. It shows you other things too, like the H1’s on a page, and the meta description for that page and stuff like that in the page title. It’s a pretty standard thing that most SEOs have in their browser to check things from time to time. Not that we use Moz that much, but it’s still a good tool to find stuff like that.
Ryan Klein:
Yeah. So it’ll be like those machines that are in bathrooms, when you grip it it tells you like how good of a lover you are. You grab onto it and it’s like, you’re like cold fish, and a hundred is like, lover boy. Yeah, if yours is a 10 or below it’s cold fish, go back and listen to every single podcast that we have because you [crosstalk 00:10:17].
Paul Warren:
Yeah. 70 or above, you’re a hot stud.
Ryan Klein:
You’re a hot stud. You can pick up any old ranking you want, hot shot.
Paul Warren:
Any old ranking.
So what’s important about that is, generally websites that have high domain authorities, when they publish content it usually gets a pretty big lift. And the keywords that you’re trying to rank for will be a lot higher than if you have a lower domain authority. So it was like way less work to do to get something up in the top five for a keyword that you’re ranking for, you’re wanting to rank for, when you publish content.
But also, websites that have high DA usually have high page authority on various pages. And so page authority is exactly like domain authority, but just at the page level of a website. So it’s looking at the age of that page and the other links that are pointed at that page from other websites. And it’s also something that Moz created. We’re not going to confuse this with page rank, which is something that Google actually created, and the metric that they use to determine how powerful a page is and how much SEO juice it’s going to pass off to other pages. But page authority is just kind of like Moz’s idea of what page rank would kind of be.
Ryan Klein:
Since we are putting an emphasis, rightfully so, for DA and PA, have you seen plenty of places where you can possibly purchase links or feature links where like the DA was 40, which is very respectable, but every page that they create has a PA of zero. Is that alarming to you? Does that effect your decision?
Paul Warren:
That’s definitely a thing. I mean, we’re kind of getting into more of a complicated subject matter that we’ll cover it a little bit later in this same episode, but when you’re buying links from a website, a lot of times they’ll archive a page. Like maybe they post something on the homepage and it’s getting juice because it’s on that homepage, because the format of the blog is everything shows up on the homepage. And so you’re getting all of the page authority and domain authority from that page. But then after a week they archive the page, it’s no longer on the homepage. You don’t have any of that anymore. It’s just pretty much a brand new page with zero page authority. So the value that you’re getting is diminished greatly from when it was on the homepage.
So when you’re doing link building and you’re looking at opportunities, especially from other websites, that’s something you kind of want to take into account, what’s the page authority of that page that you’re hoping to get a link back to your website on. So you want to make sure it’s not really going to be a waste.
Ryan Klein:
And before I forget, there are a million different ways of obtaining links and going about doing link building. His name is John Cooper? Do you remember that guy?
Paul Warren:
Oh yeah. He’s pretty cool. I’ve met him once. He would never remember me probably. But yeah, John Cooper was once pretty much the authority on link building and he wrote some pretty good tactics that are still used today. I mean, I think a lot of what he originally taught isn’t super useful just because Google’s cracked down on a lot of those tactics, but some of that is still just a core skill set that’s useful to have.
Ryan Klein:
Wow. He has facial hair now.
Paul Warren:
No way.
Ryan Klein:
So when I first started doing this about a decade ago, he couldn’t have been any older than 17.
Paul Warren:
He was a college student when he started doing it. And it was so successful he dropped out of University of Florida.
Ryan Klein:
Yeah, he was a Gator. I’m not going to say “go Gators,” because we’re UCF alum.
I don’t know if it’s still on his website, but do you remember he curated the ultimate guide to every single way fathomable to obtain links and it added up to like several hundred. And some of them kind of like overlapped a little bit, but man, it was an exhaustive list. I’ll follow up and see if I can find that link to that if it still exists. But I’d say that the dude was certainly an authority of sorts that really laid out how creative you can get about link building.
So one thing that link building has set, it’s so good that inspires SEOs to become more creative than they typically are with almost anything that they’re doing, besides maybe some clever on-site and content. Like link building has always been my final frontier for SEO, because it’s just so interesting how people come up with the ideas of doing it. And one great way for people to see it, to get like an overview and kind of paint the picture or create the world of link building itself, is to really maybe look at a guide like this that’s very comprehensive. And also I’d always recommend people doing backlink analysis of websites that they’re trying to compete with.
Paul Warren:
Yeah. So how do you do backlink analysis?
Ryan Klein:
What I do is I go to SEMrush and I go to a URL that I perceive to be an authoritative website in my industry and I’ll plug it into backlink analysis SEMrush. And this exists for SpyFu, it exists for Ahrefs. And you’re going to get pretty much a thorough report.
Paul Warren:
So you’re going to take the URL of a competitor of whatever space that you’re in. And you’re going to put it into something like Ahrefs or SEMrush. Like Ryan said, there’s a million tools out there that do really good job at looking at backlinks and analyzing your competitors backlinks. And you can look at the page level, the overall domain level. Usually you can sort things by anchor text, so like the actual keywords that they’re using in the links. It’ll show you just a lot of information, the metrics of the website that they’re on, the domain authority, the page rank of that website. There’s a ton of things to look at.
But it’s a good place to start and see where your competitors are getting links and the type of content that they have that’s being linked to. And then it gives you an idea of kind of how to get those links too. So you look at where they’re linking, you see if maybe you can pitch that website, how do they get that link on there, and then just sort of figure it out and reverse engineer it and get those links for yourself as well.
Ryan Klein:
The backlink analysis is how, at least I did, and I think our circle of SEOs, when we did a deep, deep, deep dive into link building and were like, we’re officially going to figure out how to do all the link building we’ll ever need to do, what, like five, six years ago? We did mostly backlink analysis. That’s how we found out about DNN links. That’s how we found about PBN links. That’s how we found out about bookmarking. That’s how we found out about paid scholarships. That’s how we found out about everything on an advanced level. But it certainly can help for everything on the foundation, basic level as well.
Paul Warren:
So now that we’ve kind of given you a little bit idea of what backlink analysis is and what goes into having a good link, let’s go into a couple more ways to get links. So the second best way to get links is to buy them.
Ryan Klein:
Yeah. I mean, buying links is a thing.
Paul Warren:
There’s a lot of ways you can buy links here. I mean, you can do a press release, so you’re paying for a service. And that’s good on the local side. It does a little bit on the organic side of SEO. But it’s just, you write a press release, you put it out on the wire on a paid service, and then it’s on a bunch of other websites and you have links back to your website. So definitely an easy, cheap… I mean, you usually pay about $150, $200 or whatever for a single PR to go out. So it’s not very expensive to use in the grand scheme of link building. Still definitely a paid tactic that a lot of people don’t really think about anymore, but still has some residual value.
The other way is to find an actual service that’ll go out and earn links for you, where you’re paying someone kind of like an hourly fee. This is a very, very expensive way to do that. There’s a ton of services out there. There’s agencies that really just do only this. Page One Power is as a more well known one. I think Nifty Marketing does this to some degree, too.
We are going to get to the point in this podcast where we talk about just going out and buying straight links from a PBN, which stands for private blog network, which we’ll get into in a minute. But I want to talk about all the other paid options that aren’t straight sketchy options to do.
Ryan Klein:
Of course.
Paul Warren:
So another thing that you can do is paying for guest posting and those link building services, like we said. It’s all earned, but it takes a while to do it and it’s pretty costly.
Ryan Klein:
This is just sincerely how I feel about it. When you embark on your quest to look at your options for buying links and you start seeing people that say, “purchase a guest post on my mommy blog. Buy a guest post on my food blog, on my dog blog.” You’re essentially participating in a PBN, because I guarantee you that guest post is happening on a blog that is a part of a private blog network, which in turn is just being a part of a PBN. Guest blogs are almost always a part of a PBN. So I think just people got to know that when it comes to those posts.
Paul Warren:
Absolutely.
Ryan Klein:
So Paul, you love paying for links. I think a lot of people starting off… And I don’t blame you, of course. They’re authoritative, they’re useful. You do it for a reason because the values is there. We’re going to have people that are starting off that really don’t have any budget for this and want to get their feet wet doing it themselves. So on the flip side, I think that there are some forms of link building that exist that are probably pretty decent, that don’t cost money, you just have to do it. And one of those that’s been popular in the past and frankly, sometimes works now, is actually blog commenting.
Paul Warren:
Oh yeah. You can still do that. Blog commenting and forum comments, all of that works to some degree still. You want to make sure that your links dofollow, if you can get them. But yeah, you got to look out for opportunities for that. And it’s really quick and easy to add a contextual link back to your website.
Ryan Klein:
So yeah, one thing about that… And I still see people do it. So when I look at link portfolios, the reason I mentioned this one is that I can confirm that it’s a good form of link that I see in the mix of people that rank well and are authoritative in a lot of industries.
So an example of blog commenting, let’s talk about mommy blogs. You can go out and go to different mom blogs, I guess you can just do a search and you can open up a bunch of them. And you can first see in the posts if the comments are actually approved, because most people’s websites are on WordPress and therefore the admin has to approve the comments. So once you see the comments, you want to also make sure that you can see links or anything that can be hyperlinked. So either the profile name, the commenter name, can be linked back to a website, or they can embed a link. And then once you check both those things, like Paul said, I think you would just right click the link, I don’t want to get too technical, but you want to right click the link or look at the source and see if there’s a nofollow tag attached to that link.
Paul Warren:
Also, the MozBar extension that we talked about earlier in this episode that you can get for Chrome has a nice, handy dandy little thing on there that’ll tell you if a link is dofollow or not.
Ryan Klein:
[crosstalk 00:21:02].
Paul Warren:
It’ll highlight green if it’s follow, red if it’s a nofollow.
Ryan Klein:
I love it.
Paul Warren:
So that’ll let you know what you’re getting out of it. So definitely another reason to get that MozBar we were talking about earlier.
Ryan Klein:
I’m falling behind with technology and tools when it comes to SEO. That’s on me. This is a call to action for me.
So, once you see some blogs, it doesn’t have to be a mommy blog, but once you see blogs that are engaging in comments and allowing for hyperlinks, just make sure that you respond to the blog appropriately, you’re actually citing something from the blog itself. It’s like, I love your third paragraph when you were talking about how the XFL is the worst sport that’s ever happened in the past 10 years. And so they know that you’re actually engaging with the content.
Paul Warren:
I think if people listen to us for any amount of time, any previous podcasts, you would know that we have no problem with getting links any way that we can get them. There’s no moral anything when it comes to backlinking. I don’t buy into any of that crap. You’re just feeding the Google algorithm and trying to get rankings from it, and you’re just trying to give it what it needs to get that. Who really cares how you do it, as long as you’re not doing anything illegal or anything wrong like that. I think it’s just ridiculous that people have a moral stance on it like it means something. Why is it wrong? Because Google said so? Well, Google’s generally wrong and they do a lot of bad stuff all the time so maybe we don’t listen to them.
Ryan Klein:
I actually think this is something that we should have opened with is, oh, are they going to be talking about link building that’s white hat or black hat? It’s neither. If you want to say it’s one, it’s all black hat.
Paul Warren:
Nah, we’re talking about it all. It’s all.
Ryan Klein:
Yeah, it really is.
Paul Warren:
Yeah, any link building at all is black hat.
Ryan Klein:
I think that I’d prefer to refer some places for people that want to do links themselves, I’ll just link some resources, because I don’t have the comprehensive list for any of my resources that are out there already. So there’s dozens of opportunities to build links yourself.
One thing that I definitely want to mention, once you go out there and you start reading these descriptions of link building packages, and it’s like, you’re going to go from like a hundred to one, and I’m going to do social bookmarking and web 2.0 and build a linking pyramid to boost your rankings. It’s very, very important to be patient. You don’t want to buy a bunch of packages all at once, send all the same keywords to your website all at once. You need to make it look natural, because if your website went from having zero links to a thousand links in a month, it’s not going to look natural and Google’s algorithm picks up on that. It just doesn’t look right for all those anchor texts and all those links to come in at the same time.
Paul Warren:
Your website has a backlink profile that Google looks at. And so if you had 50 links going to your website and all of them said ‘iPhone repair’, from 50 different websites, I mean, that would look really suspicious to Google just because that would be almost impossible to have happen naturally in the world. That 50 unrelated websites linked to your website with the exact same text. So keep that in mind. You want to pepper in some of the anchor texts that you want to rank for in your links on other websites, but you don’t want everything to be like that. You kind of want things to be ‘click here’, just regular URLs, the URL of your business, you want to mix in everything like that. I mean, there’s a percentage that you can go over that people kind of argue with all the time, and I think it’s like, if more than 15% of your links are exact match anchor text for your whole website, usually some algorithm penalties are going to start going off on you and you’re not going to rank as well. So it’s just stuff to kind of keep in mind.
Ryan Klein:
Paul, we are on the same page about so much. I would totally say 15%, which is a specific number.
Paul Warren:
15%?
Ryan Klein:
Yeah, that sounds about right. You don’t need a massive amount of the anchor text or the money keyword or the main keyword-
Paul Warren:
You really don’t.
Ryan Klein:
To make it happen. I mean, it could be, yeah, 15% sounds fine. I think that you can do 10%. And just every once in a while-
Paul Warren:
I was thinking for like an entire domain though.
Ryan Klein:
Yeah, same.
Paul Warren:
Your overall website.
Ryan Klein:
And another thing to keep in mind, I know this ties in a little bit about content, but when you’re building your links, you’re not trying to do all to just a homepage because of course, for most businesses, the homepage doesn’t encompass all your keywords. It can’t. It’s not supposed to. So if you have your main keyword on your homepage, but then you also have other things you’re trying to rank for, some links are going to go to some sub-directories and you’re going to kind of spread the wealth a little bit, because that also looks natural as well.
Paul Warren:
Yeah. I mean, I think we’ve covered a lot of these topics here though, that kind of get your feet wet into the link building world, right?
Ryan Klein:
Yeah. Yeah. Like we said, building the foundation. There’s going to be supplemental guides and videos to support everything we’re discussing. Of course, the world of link building can’t be summarized in 40 minutes, but this can definitely be the guiding light for making it one of the main components of what you do SEO wise.
Paul Warren:
Yeah, this’ll get you in there.
Ryan Klein:
Link building, like I said, I think it’s the most challenging aspect of SEO because it doesn’t evolve as much as people would make you think it does. It’s like, oh, you know the links that you built five years ago aren’t going to work today. The links that didn’t work, haven’t worked for a long time. And the links that have been around kind of still work.
Paul Warren:
That’s definitely true.
Ryan Klein:
So link farms of course don’t work anymore. You don’t really want to get links from like India and China and places that aren’t really where your website exists, but that’s already kind of been established for quite some time.
Paul Warren:
Yeah. But we love, if you have any questions about this episode or about link building in general, feel free to like email us at SEOisdeadandotherlies@gmail.com. We’re happy to answer this. I mean, we’ve been doing link building at some level for like 10 years probably, right? I know I’ve been doing it for about ten years now.
Ryan Klein:
A while, yeah.
Paul Warren:
Yeah. We tend to do really high level stuff that we really didn’t cover on this episode at all, but if that’s something that you’re interested in, you need some more resources, we’re happy to provide that for you guys.
Ryan Klein:
Yeah. We actually, the most podcasts that we have based off the topic are kind of dedicated to link-building. So if you want to go back, we have a couple with guests that talk about outreach. We have one on PR. We’ve definitely talked about PBNs and other stuff in the past. We’ve talked about links in at least five or six other podcasts, pretty thoroughly.
Paul Warren:
Well, I wanted to say thanks to all our listeners out there. We’re heading up to a pretty big milestone for download wise. I’m not going to say the number out there, but we’re pretty excited about it. And Ryan, do you know, we’re almost to the point where we been doing this two years.
Ryan Klein:
I think the first release was something like May 18th.
Paul Warren:
Yeah, it’s really coming up on it. So we’ve seen amazing growth and we’ve had a really good time doing it. And we’ve been happy to help so many people out there in the SEO industry.
Ryan Klein:
I really do enjoy it. And I’m glad that people have been listening along and engaging with us more often. We’re always-
Paul Warren:
And if you like what you’re listening to, be sure to like, share, subscribe, anywhere that you see that out there. I know there’s a million different podcasts apps. I only use a couple of them. But if you like that make sure show us a little love out there, give us a good review.
Ryan Klein:
I’d love that. [crosstalk 00:28:16].
Paul Warren:
Helps with our rankings.
Ryan Klein:
I appreciate it. [crosstalk 00:28:19].
Paul Warren:
If you want to get in touch with us, too, again, check out our YouTube channel. Ryan’s actually been posting some pretty quality videos, not just our standard podcast video that goes up there with no actual video.
Ryan Klein:
That’s not what you said. You said, all you hear is-
Paul Warren:
Yeah, he’s breathing really hard in one of the YouTube videos.
Ryan Klein:
I swear I’m not a mouth breather.
Paul Warren:
If you want to comment in the comments and you’re listening, like, “hey Ryan, why are you breathing so hard?” That’d be awesome.
Thank you so much for listening. I’m Paul Warren.
Ryan Klein:
And I’m Ryan Klein.
Paul Warren:
And this has been another episode of ‘SEO is Dead and Other Lies’. Bye.
Ryan Klein:
Goodbye. Have a nice weekend.